The No. 1 skill leaders can steal from influencers: one founder explains

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader Welcome to Meet the Leader, the podcast where top leaders share how they're tackling the world's toughest challenges. In today's episode, we talked to Florian Hoffman of The Do about what leaders can learn from influencers.

Subscribe to Meet the Leader on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your favorite podcasts. And don't forget to rate and reviews. I'm Linda Lacina from the World Economic Forum and this is Meet the Leader.

Florian Hoffman, The Do We're not in a crisis of understanding. We're in a crisis of implementation

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader Florian Hoffman is the founder of The Do. This is an anti MBA program, as he calls it, one that is designed to empower people under the age of 29 to use business as an engine for change.

There's no fancy campus or curricula, just an acknowledgement that the challenges facing leaders today are not theoretical and that old methods don't always fit new problems. He'll share how The Do does this and the change it has already made happen.

But it also share a surprising lesson for leaders looking to add to their toolkit: what they can learn from influencers.

That ability to tap into passion to spark and scale your own inspiration can build impact and a true legacy. We''ll talk about all of this and a range of other ways that leaders can be even 5% better -- how they can be more empathetic, how they can get even more things done.

But first, we'll talk about The Do and how to equip today's leaders with the block and tackle of solving real problems.

Florian Hoffman, The Do The Do is the platform that helps business leaders to empower their people to change faster around sustainability, around innovation, around technology, and making business part of the solution, not part of the problem. We have an alternative private university called the Do School, where the ideas today you learn by doing and not in theory. And we empower lots of current leaders and we empower the next generation of changemakers.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader And what led you to found it?

Florian Hoffman, The Do I had the accident of starting a foundation really early on in my life with an entrepreneur and met lots of owners and CEOs of businesses, and they told me that change just isn't happening fast enough. So I realized we're not in a crisis of understanding. We're in a crisis of implementation. So how do we foster these implementation skills? And that journey led me to starting The Do

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader Give us a deeper understanding of that. What does the Do do? That may be a traditional, classic business school that maybe most people are familiar with doesn't?

Florian Hoffman, The Do So traditional leadership education is you send a bunch of people to a fancy campus, or you have your own academy or training provider, and you have a set curricula and you learn knowledge, and then you go back into your job and you're supposed to apply that knowledge. And the reality is that isn't really how the future world works anymore, because we're not reproducing old systems and solutions. We need to find new solutions. And this means we're actually taking the real life problems that the businesses or governments or foundations are facing. And we're building learning programs by which the learners are solving the problems. But in the process of solving these problems, they meet other people from the outside experts, startups, innovators, but they also dig deep into what their own passion and purposes, and they grow as leaders in the moment as they're actually implementing new ideas.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader Give us an example of one case study that where there's been a before and after and sort of the leadership journey.

Florian Hoffman, The Do For example, we're working with the biggest healthcare logistics company who also own lots of pharmacies. And the key question is, how do you take pharmacies digital? What you could do is you could give that out to consultants, or you could do a research or you could buy companies. And it said what we said is we take actually the 100 most talented leaders from across the organization, across countries, and we put them into a learning program where they take the pharmacy online, and they do it in a way where they grow individually. They do it sort of really specifically for the business. So it has their passion, their values, their ethos in it, and it created a solution where from now on, millions of people across over 27 markets, I think, are now having better access to their medicine.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader And from the leadership side. How would the leaders change? What would they learn? How would they grow?

Florian Hoffman, The Do The leaders grow through The Do School in realizing that the most important skills that we need today are what we used to call soft skills, right? How do I create a sense of trust? How do I create a sense of security? How do I communicate across divides? How do I bring people together? How do I catalyze change? And all of that are skills and skills you learn by applying them. So we call that know-how building. Right. And it's distinct from knowledge building which you can absorb as information. But it's very hard to say. I'm going to become more empathetic by watching a Ted talk. Right. It's great to watch a Ted talk, but in order to hone your empathy, you're actually going to have to deal with other people.

And so we really practice this idea of saying: how can you. Hone your curiosity. How can you work together with others? How can you work together with others outside that have very different life realities, but are passionate about the same topics? And through that, become a more servant and a more informed leader.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader You mentioned, you know, hey, you can't just learn empathy unless you work with other people. And which is it's so funny because it's so obvious. But the reality is, it's a fact that I think most people have forgotten And people listening to this, I would also venture, think that they are empathetic. But we know from society, we know from being here at Davos this week where there's all kinds of horrific challenges, geopolitical conflict, that there's a lack of empathy. If I'm a leader listening to this, how can I even be 5% more empathetic? What can I do? Or what should I be thinking about? Questions I should ask myself? How could I like sort of coach myself up to empathy?

Florian Hoffman, The Do So I would say there's three things that I've experienced in our work that I would recommend. So the first one is to really open up a space where you acknowledge and share authentically that no one has all the answers in this massively conflicting and disruptive time that we're living in, right? And that sounds, again, so obvious, but giving that a voice and saying, "hey guys, this is the direction that we're going. But actually, I'm aware that I don't have all the answers, and I want you to be able to voice your concerns and where you think we need to go, so that I'm aware of my blindspot, and that together we can actually learn from each other and work in a way in where there is a sense of trust and security."

We've all seen the data that shows that teams that have a bigger sense of trust and security are outperforming in times of remote work and hybrid work than others by multiples. Right? So that's the first one.

The second one is that I would say as a leader, one of the key challenges is that you're trying to make change happen. And people are extremely tired of change. Right? There's a lot of change in the world and there's a lot of change in the world of business. So how do I get people on board? And this is where I think leaders need to think about how they're building centers of energy. And one center of energy that I'm very passionate about is movement building. The question that I think every employee asks themselves, "If I'm showing up at work at nine in the morning, either on my computer or in an office, how can I make a contribution?" Because most people want to make a contribution. And how does what I do actually matter, especially if there's lots of fancy people who keep telling me where the organization is going to.

Understanding your people as sort of movement participants and building a movement where everybody has a feeling that with what they're doing, they're contributing and inviting them to contribute, it's I think a second element that we've seen that is really effective at a time where there is so much apathy.

And last but not least, I would say that there is really an opportunity to think differently about your talents and think about the talents as the ones that can really get excited about sort of implementing your strategy. Because I get to meet every week with leaders who have really fancy plans and tell me that they really are sort of struggling and making them happen. And there's a bunch of young, talented people in your organization. I imagine that if you support them, if you foster them, if you ask them for their opinions, they would be very eager to actually drive the implementation of those ideas, those strategies that you have.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader You talked about sort of building a movement. How can a leader serve as an influencer in their organization? What are your thoughts about that?

Florian Hoffman, The Do So I love to talk about as sort of leadership as an influencer, because again, I think it's relatively straightforward that the command culture is over, right? So we can't pressure and demand from people to behave or in a certain way, as you know, the controlling system still used to exist in many organizations a couple of years back, actually. Right. So that means that now suddenly, how do I think about getting people on board? And again, it's about trust. It's about authenticity. It's about inspiration that requires internal communication. You know, internal communication was always a bit sort of the sad counterpart of the fancy marketing world. I believe internal communication is much more important because I believe there isn't a difference between internal and external storytelling. But also you need to get your people on board in ever-changing complex times where every week there's a new crisis. So how do I keep the red thread? And that can goes to I need a certain sense of consistency. And most importantly again, I need opportunity spaces.

"Hi. This is sort of where we're at authentically. This is what's working, what's not working. I need all of you on board. And by the way, this is the stuff that we need to figure out how to get done. This is the opportunity that I would love you to get involved with. And I'm really eager to hear how you would solve for that."

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader There's a saying that if you think you're a leader and you look behind you and no one is there that you're just out for a walk. Is it maybe a helpful thing for leaders is something where they can maybe stop saying the word leader.

Florian Hoffman, The Do Yes, I totally agree.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader What would you recommend? What should they think instead?

Florian Hoffman, The Do Well, I think first of all, the leader idea is sort of a differentiator, right? It pretends that one person stands above others. And the reality is we live in a world where we each have different roles. I think in work, especially with stuff becoming more agile, where it's about sort of coming together around problems and very much about bringing in different expertise where there's also going to be more of the expertise roles, now, with AI coming in, then sort of the functional roles, right, different people will have different senses of responsibility at the time. And so that means everybody, the old saying, "not everybody has to be a leader." Right. And this means that I think it's about how can I communicate effectively who has which role in which situation. How can we as a joint team or we often talk about communities, set ourselves goals that we all believe in and that we're excited about? And then how can we find ways that work for us in actually getting [things] done.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader So in order to be an influencer or, you know, to get [things] done, as you say, what elements need to be in place, right? Because you still have to have the environment that is going to be the ground that will like sort of let all this stuff grow and flourish. What are those sort of ingredients that need to be in place?

Florian Hoffman, The Do So there's a couple of the obvious ones, like again, like safety where everybody can feel safe to speak up. And it's a meritocracy of ideas. The best idea wins where there's also the openness on most stuff. If you make a mistake, the world isn't going to end, especially in the world of work. Right? So that means being open about mistakes and learning from them. Those are sort of the obvious things.

And then what I think is really important as well is to build sort of word clusters around a clear idea of joint sort of interests, joint passions, and thereby a joint sense of what we want to achieve together. So that means when we're, for example, helping organizations sort of implement their change around sustainability or becoming circular or, you know, implementing a diversity and inclusion strategy and making that happen, it's really about, in the end, co-creation. So how do you bring the different people together so that they own sort of what will happen. And then you can sort of guide them and it can be process and there can be quality checks and there can be outside expertise that come in. But ultimately it's about their ownership.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader We talked about, you know, this business of building a movement and sort of making sure that people feel like they own their contribution. Why is that approach to getting things done, why will that be increasingly vital during this time, where we're going to have increasingly fast cycles of technology or geopolitical strife and shifts and maybe increasing challenges from the climate crisis? You know, why is this ability to create a movement within your workplace, Why will that be increasingly important in the years ahead?

Florian Hoffman, The Do I think building a movement and thinking of your organization as a movement is vital, because no company has the luxury anymore to remain neutral, and that is really very, very difficult for top decision makers because it's very hard to get it right. Right. For some, your too progressive, for the others, you're not progressive enough. You have your shareholders, you have your stakeholders. And so it's a really difficult spot that top decision makers are in.

If we then acknowledge and say, well, we need to take positions, then we have to acknowledge that that's relevant because your employees are looking for that. You get the better talent, you retain the talent. Consumers are looking for that. And that also then means you need to give them an opportunity to really be part of where you're going, because that, in a sense, is making it less risky to take positions.

Also it is about not only sort of, you know, the old corporate communications of decision making, but it is about being inclusive, for example, as a brand, to get all the fans and all the people who are loyal to you to help you move in the right direction. And so where we see this is, I give you an example with a company like Mercedes-Benz, which is in an incredible journey from combustion engine cars to e-cars. Right. And some might say it's far too late. Others might say, oh my God, is this really viable? And so obviously there is a movement internally to sort of upskilling and reskilling and the innovation and everything that needs to happen there. But at the same time, we also now together launched a massive fellowship program where we're going to select hundreds and hundreds of young environmental innovators, startups from around the world so that they actually get supported. But they can also bring their ideas to the employees of Mercedes-Benz. Right. And it's this idea that the outside in the inside, it's sort of not necessarily that sharply divided. And it's really about how do we create a culture in which innovation can happen faster, and in which employees can have a sense of energy and hope in the future.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader How have you changed as a leader since founding The Do?

Florian Hoffman, The Do Ten years ago now, I started to do with my incredible wife on equal footing, and I'm still doing that. And that hasn't changed and makes me extremely proud. What has changed is that I've learned how to become not only an impatient social entrepreneur, but somebody who fully trusts and believes in other people coming in on the bits that I'm not so good at, and bringing their passion and their talents to the table so that the overall organization is moving in the right direction, and that requires the entrepreneur to let go. And that's not always easy. And once you learn how to let go, it's a huge liberation.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader What is a book that you recommend?

Florian Hoffman, The Do So I've written a book that came out last year in English and German. That's called Our New World that I dedicated to my daughter, so I do have to recommend that. Other than that, I just had because of how dire the world looks like. I reread Voltaire's Candid, which is sort of a study of optimism, and it broke my heart again. But also it gave me a lot of motivation for 2024 to keep getting involved, which is what I would ask everybody listening to this, that no matter where you stand, there's so many challenges. It requires all of us to get involved. There's no time for apathy.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader What's a particular part of that book that would maybe stay with somebody?

Florian Hoffman, The Do To me, what's really poignant about it that it's a couple of hundred years old. But it's this how do I look at the world? Is everything black or is everything white? And we live in a time where many people want us to think that it is either black or white. And the reality, obviously it isn't either. But the narratives are so strong, and I think for democracy, for that push to believe in an economy that can be green and prosperous, we all need to pragmatically sort of believe in the gray areas, and we need to push the gray areas.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader What is a piece of advice that you've always been grateful for?

Florian Hoffman, The Do You're never as good as you think you are, and you're never as bad as you think you are.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader And how has that helped you?

Florian Hoffman, The Do To keep perspective and keep maybe looking for perspective and keep staying curious about what what's yet to come?

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader Does it also just help with moving forward?

Florian Hoffman, The Do Yes, absolutely. And obviously I'm an optimist. I believe in people, and I believe that if we're curious in each other, sort of trying to understand and meet each other on equal footing, then we will ultimately create sort of a lot of beautiful things and not only horrible things.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader That was Florian Hoffmann. Thanks so much to him. And thanks so much to you for listening. Find a transcript of this episode, as well as transcripts from my colleagues podcast, Radio Davos at Wef.ch/podcast.

This episode of Meet the Leader was produced and presented by me, Jere Johansson and Taz Kelleher as editor, Juan Toran as studio engineer in Davos and Gareth Nolan driving studio production. That's it for now. I'm Linda Lacina from the World Economic Forum. Have a great day.